Clown Trips: Cambodia, 2003
Talking with an American Who Works for the World Bank in Cambodia
A conversation that really happened, in December 2003.
On a leisurely boat trip from Phnom Penh to Siem Reap with all the clowns, Patch Adams, Heidi Read, and I met an American living in Cambodia who "works for the World Bank," as he told us casually.
Patch: "What?? You work for that piece of shit organization? Are you aware of what organizations like the World Bank and WTO and IMF are doing to countries? Look, I'd better not even try to talk to you, I'll get too angry.
Patch leaves.
Heidi, eavesdropping sewing, and I, stay.
Patch's performance was one that I would have given, had he not got there before me: fury. I know few people reading this will agree with me here. There's an idea among those of us who oppose the status quo that when you meet someone whose views (and work and organizations and values) you oppose, you should have a strategically friendly conversation with them in order to educate them, etc., etc.
Well, fury is OK by me. As ONE of the possible performances. It's not pleasant to be the object of, but it's pretty unforgettable. People who have boiled at me, I sure remember. Maybe it won't teach anything, but who says one has to be a teacher all the time. Maybe being a forgettable teacher is less desirable than being an unforgettable boiler, these days.
Conversation continues. (This next part could be labeled, IT PAYS TO STUDY AT HOME.)
As Patch had already performed fury (or left before it really burst open), I thought I'd try another performance: discussion.
In a mild voice (really) I took up the discussion with the guy (with Heidi sewingly eavesdropping). It helped to have Heidi there as a witness. I wanted to look good to her.
Susan: "The World Bank's structural adjustment programs are good for transnational owners/investors, lousy for the poor in any country."
World Bank Man: "I disagree. In Cambodia, there's been a huge garment factory industry here. Isn't it better for the poor people in Cambodia that they earn $1 a day working in the Garment factories, than have no place to work at all and have to prostitute themselves just to eat?"
But you see, I was READY for that example. I had watched the skit on Structural Adjustment written by Danielle and Sehvilla; I had studied the 57 page booklet called Does Globalization Help the Poor? (put out by the International Forum on Globalization—excellent) I was prepared!
Susan: "The garment industries aren't here to help the poor people, but to take advantage of their poverty; cheap labor."
WBM: "Of course, I know their motives aren't altruistic. I'm just saying they HELP the economy".
Susan: "But in five years when standards of living and wages INCREASE in Cambodia, the factories will move out to the next devastated country and leave the country worse off."
WBM: "Well, that is true. But the people could save enough money now to tide them over later."
Susan: "Have you ever been to East Lansing Michigan? Had those people saved enough money when Ford moved overseas?"
WBM: "But the GNP has gone up in Cambodia as a result of garment factories."
I had studied with Michael Brun at School for Designing a Society (SDaS). I KNEW all this crap about citing rising GNPs and GDPs as evidence of improving the standard of living for people in a country. I WAS READY!!!
Susan: "GNP only measures the market value of economic production. It doesn't describe the effects of clear-cutting of forests, or the overall distribution of wealth!! It's no indication of improved standard of living for all people in the country!!"
At this point, to my amazement, the guy agreed. He changed his position; instead of defending the World Bank, he joined in the attack.
WHAT?? HUH??
WBM: "Well, I agree with that. I've constantly told my organization (World Bank, in case anyone forgot) that there's NOT ENOUGH structural adjustment. Yes, structural adjustment, but FROM what, TO what?? Did you know that Joseph Stiglitz, who was chief economist and vice president of World Bank from 1997 to 2000, had stepped out of the organization, with severe criticisms of it?"
Susan, a little slow as I was beschnoodled at the whole turn of the conversation: "Well, yes, I HAD read that ..."
WBM: "One of the main reasons I joined the World Bank was that as an environmentalist in my former life ..."
Susan, still slow: "What? You were an environmentalist, but ..."
WBM: "Yup, I was one of the good guys. Well, I hooked up with the World Bank because I had discovered that in countries where the GNP went up, the soil erosion factors also went up. So what good was GNP? I was furious that no one was making the connection. So I completely agree with your criticisms of GNP there."
Pleasant chat ensued. How confusing. He even asked if he could get Patchs autograph, as Patch had seemed to him (in his words) "pretty pissed off before.")
Life, glittering with sweet jagged chards of surprises.
